The Best Traditional Bowhunter You've Never Heard Of

In Part one of this very special two-part podcast, Tom Sr. and Tommy sit down with their good friend Harold Fahrenbrook. They once described Harold as the best bowhunter that no one knows about. Harold's notoriety has changed somewhat, but he is one of a very small number of what the Clum's describe as the best of the best.

Transcript

0:00

Well, today I am really honored to have a great friend of the Clum family with

me and Tommy, uh, Harold Farenbrook. Harold Farenbrook is a guy that we've

known for, I don't know, maybe 20 years or so. I met him in the old shop. Uh, we did

business back to together back then and we kind of hit it off in a lot of ways and and, uh, over the years we've gotten

a lot closer to Herald. I've heard so many amazing stories stories from

Harold. He's been a professional guide in Alaska for 42 years. Uh we we in

parts of this discussion is how he got his start as a 13 14 year old kid getting dropped off in the wilderness

alone for 3 days at a time and what he experienced with doing that and how he

found the love of being in the back country even all by himself. Um, this is

a man as far as uh most the attributes of of a person that I admire greatly.

Um, this is the toughest individual I know. This is the best bow hunter I

know. This is the most skilled, most experienced. Uh, I can't I can't I don't have enough

platitudes for this guy. um and the amount of respect for for Harold that I

have. But uh it's my great pleasure to share some of you know let Harold share

some of his stories with the folks that uh watch this channel and I really hope you enjoy it. I know you will. So uh you

know we'll get started and we've got another you've had another experience this year that was it's turned out to be

devastating in a lot of ways. It was could have been a lot more devastating. Yeah. Um that's for sure. But we'll start off

with a story of uh the brown bear uh hunt that you were guiding and what

happened then. And I'm going to ask you to tell a couple of the other close calls cuz Harold's had more experience with brown bears and having to use a

firearm and having to save somebody's life with brown bears and a grizzly bear than anybody that I've ever read about.

So, um let's just start with that. Tell them tell them about what happened. Well, as far as that intro goes, I mean,

right back at you guys. I always considered the clums and the reputation you guys had which brought me down to your old shop on Sheridan or POS there

um was uh um yeah these guys I mean they they live sleep drank everything archery

and um which sound like my kind of people and uh the accomplishments you guys have had all of you had um uh

you're you're yeah I beg to differ some of the best bow hunters out there uh were it's it's honored I'm part of that

class but uh Yeah. Don't cut your guys don't go don't cut yourself short. You guys have uh you've not only uh very

instrumental very instrumental in the archery industry yourself as far as hunters, but as far as having the shop,

having the the the commodery all your people have with anybody and anybody

that walks through that shop. Um one of the biggest compliments I think I heard from you guys or from somebody was Mike

Palmer back early in the time back at your old shop. Mike Palmer said, "I mean, you you knew who Mike Palmer was.

You would love to have his boats." Well, Mike Palmer don't sell retail. And I talked to Mike. I'm good friends with

him. And said, "Well, I can get Mike to your shop. I I can get uh Fred Iller to your shop. I can get some people down

there." And uh one of the So, I'm saying this story because of what Mike said

about you guys. He walks in there. He's Mike Palmer. He's the We're supposed to go out to lunch. Danny's there. You're

there. And it's like and I'm like, well man, you know, here's Mike and uh you

come over and you're like, "Mike, this this place was emptied just a couple minutes ago. Now we got a bunch of customers in here. We're going to have

to take care of him and talk to him a little bit." So I'm think I'm looking at Mike's body language like he's he would get irritated because if you know

anything about Mike, he don't have much of a tolerance for too much of anything. And and so about a half hour later, you

finally were able to break free. And just before you came over to break free, he comes over to me. And I'm like, "Man,

I'm sorry about this. I'm sure they are, too." He goes, "If he wasn't taking care of those customers over there, I

wouldn't let him sell my bows." He goes, "This is the best resume that

he could have done. If he would have turned his back on those simple people that walked off the street, he goes, I would I wouldn't have wanted him at my

bow." He goes, "So, I'm glad this happened, and I'll wait as long as it takes." So, that was a

testament to how Rocky Mountain Special Gear treats anybody that walks through the door. So, um, I'd like to lead with

that. Thank you. Um, the other thing is as far as what happened to me, and I'll I'll probably

give you guys some pictures of some of the surgeries I had and what it looked like, but yeah, I was guiding this fall.

I'm in this spring, had an awesome season. I had five clients. All five of my brown bear clients got their got

their bears. Um, the last client I had a bow hunter.

He he shot a brown bear. And Alaska is kind of different. So he shot it like at

1:00 in the morning, but 1:00 in the morning in Alaska in June is about what

it's like here at 8:30. It's it's dust, but you can still see 100 yards. And so

he shot this shot this bear, made a great hit on it. And but there's it's a

jungle. And so we're we're waiting for this bear to expire. And we know he's

going to spire. I know where the bear I know where the arrow hit. I know it's going to be dead. At least I feel it is. and we wait about so now when it gets to

two o'clock in the morning that's the darkest it is well now I'm not going to be able to pick up blood um so it's just

wait till it starts getting light again so like 3:30 in the morning it starts getting light again we start looking for this bear and um we're having a little

bit of a tough time he's not Bears don't like to bleed anyways they got that under that undercoating of hair and then

they got um they got the rest of their hair so they don't like to bleed and

he's not bleeding and we're we're having a tough time. So, I got a hold of the outfitter I work for, Jonah, and say,

"Hey, we might need some help with this one." And Jonah's he's really good tracker, really good eyes for blood. I

always thought I was too, but compared to him, yeah, he he picks up stuff that I don't. I sometimes pick up stuff that

he don't, but between two of us, a pretty good chance of finding a bear. And u and Jonah really got the ball

going with finding some stuff that we lost. and um and it took off a different direction than what we thought it did.

And what it ended up being was another bear right after we shot this had that bear run by him and he took off and gave

us the illusion that that was the sound. So any rate, we got on the right track. We found this bear. Um but it had been

half eaten by another brown bear. That's never happened to me before. And so the

client still wants this bear. Nice skull claws. I mean, but if you and you really

have no choice and um so he I but I got to skin this bear now, which is no big

deal. I got to skin the bear. So I skin the bear, but Jonah is walking back with the client and to do some paperwork and

stuff back at the plane and um um

um and so anyway, I think it was transfer of possession or something like that. At any rate, I hear the plane fly off and my client's supposed to be

coming back and he's a real good client. He's tough as nails. I ain't worried about him coming back, but it's always

easier to skin a bear if somebody's holding a paw, keeping it rigid or any animal. And plus,

it was being eaten three hours before we got maybe 10 minutes before we got there. I mean, we only let it set for

three hours. It was already half eaten. Wow. So, we know there's a bear that's claimed this thing. And uh so I'm in

there kind of got my head on a swivel and um um I let my client have the

pistol my pistol my my and that I wear on my chest. It's his chest harness. You uh carry a Glock 20.

Yeah. 10 mm. Yeah. And um so but I had a Ruger 375

that I also keep with me. And uh I had that leaning against a tree about 10 feet away. 10 feet don't seem that far.

That's three big steps maybe, but it ended up being a little too far. Um because

and I gave my client the pistol so that he had something when he came back.

Well, all of a sudden I look up and the bears

how he got there without me seeing him. I don't know how he got there, but he's right there. He lunges at me.

How far away was he when you saw him? 10 ft.

And like I say, it's a jungle in there. Yeah. And I was hearing something, but I I I would look and I didn't see anything. So

then he lunged and landed on top of the dead bear, which I was straddling, skinning. So I I fell backwards on my on

my ass. And it's this instant reaction. When you're falling backwards, you put your hands behind you. Well, my instant

reaction as I was falling back, I reached for my chest to grab my pistol. And the feeling that came over me when

that wasn't there was horror. overwhelming. It was It was horrible.

So, I land and now he he has his front legs over the top of the bear I was

skinning. And when he hit the bear with his body, the dead bear, it it went over the top of my right foot a little bit.

And so, he's straddling me. I mean, he's his chin is over my crotch. And I'm like this. And he has me if he wants me. And

he's he's looking like above me. He won't make eye contact with me. And then I grabbed my knee with my both my hands

and kind of tried to slowly pull my foot out from underneath the dead bear. And then the bear moved because and he he

looked at he looked at my knee, looked at my foot. I'm like, he's going to grab my knee. He's going to grab me right now. And instead, he moved his paws from

the other side of the bear to on top of the bear and just started pounding on it. And as he was doing that, I'm just

crawling backwards slowly as I can back to my bow and he's still just now he's making eye contact with me, but he's

just on top of the bear kind of like this is my bear. Get the hell out of here. And I at that point I didn't have

the feeling he was still going to charge me. And I finally got to my rifle, shouldered it, and then I then I felt

good. I mean, he's going to lose that battle now. But when I did that, I ended up poking my finger with my Havalon

knife. When I put my when I put my hands behind me to break my fall, I poked my thumb. It went in like a quarter inch

deep and maybe a quarter inch cut. And but what happened after I then I finished skinning the bear, threw it in

my backpack. So that bear ran off. He ran off. Um and then what was funny

is I got in my backpack and now I'm still pissed at my client. I get back, there's my client 25 ft up in a tree.

I'm like, "What the heck happened here?" Why were you using that pistol? Yeah. I was like I was like he's like Harold. He goes I I got halfway to you

and this bear the giant bear was on the trail started charging me and I I made

it back here. So he's just defending himself. Yeah. So he he he he had no choice. So he's he's in reaching my joint on my

client saying, "Hey, tell Harold that there was a bear on the trail and to be careful and and Yeah. So any rate, so he

it had to be the same bear." Yeah. But any rate, so everything's good now. And now I know why he wasn't there with me.

It's because he saw the same bear I did. Um but any rate, um I cut my thumb. No

big deal. Washed my hand off in the river and and um put a band-aid on it and he still has another bear to hunt.

And he shot another really big bear two days later. And you survived an amazingly close close

call. Oh, that was that was one of the most dangerous things, a bear on a food source. Yeah. And this is the first time I've

been charged by a bear in 19 years that I wasn't armed. I mean, I instantly out of react just I

I I And you you've saved yourself with that pistol a couple times, haven't you? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There was Oh, yeah.

We'll get to those stories. But any rate, um so uh then I get back,

my thumb's red, it's kind of [ __ ] I can squeeze pus out of the hole. And um

didn't think much of it. Then I'm I fly home maybe a week later and my girlfriend picks me up and she's like,

"Okay, we're going to infeeds up here. Urgent care." Looked at it and

then two days later I was having emergency surgery on my hand. Um so

yeah, it uh and it's called it's called Sealfinger, which I think is a a sorry

ass name for what I'm going through here. Uh but it's that's what they call it. And the last case was in 1907.

And what it does, it's from a bear eating a harbor seal.

And the harbor seals are getting further and further closer to those rivers because they're waiting for the salmon to get in them. And apparently this bear

must have got into one that year, maybe even the year before. But it it this parasite gets in their intestines. Well,

I never messed with the intestines when I skin a normal bear. This thing was halfeaten, so intestine juice was

everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what got into my hand. And so, yeah, 11 days in the hospital, three hand surgeries, and it went from my hand

to my hip to my knee. I just bacteria. Yeah. That they haven't even seen since 1907

that lives in the intestine of a harbor seal. The bear your client killed, ate the harbor steel,

had it in his intestine. Yeah. And just the poor luck of having that bear halfeaten by another bear

exposing that bacteria and then and then an accidental poke exposed you to that

bacteria that nobody's seen since 1907. Correct. Yeah. And this is a this is a bacteria that's

virtually impossible to kill. It's very specific. And you've told me how the CDC saved your life by finding

this bacteria. Infectious disease found a needle in a hay stack. Uh I had people at church

praying for me. I had family and friends praying for me. Friends I haven't heard from in eons. Somehow the word got out

and I had I getting stuff in the mailbox. Hey man, hope you're recovering. We got prayers heading your direction. And I I strongly 100% feel

that's why infectious disease got something planted a seed in her head licked the direction she did. Other than

she's being she's extremely smart woman. She found this because up to that point

I was on a pickline and a pickline if nobody knows what it is. It's a It's an where they can stick an IV, antibiotics

um without having to stick you every single day. This is something you go home with. Leave a port. So, every single day

for like three weeks I had to drive all the way back into Denver, get IV antibiotic, etc. for 45 minutes till the

bag was empty. But it was kicking the [ __ ] out of my liver and my kidneys. And they they said, "You you can't stay on

this." I mean, it's what's more important, your hand or your liver? I mean, this is really getting Look at

that. Yeah. and it's it's getting it's it's getting crunch time. And she found it in time and thank God for prayers and thank

God for God and the whole darn bit because it was uh instrumental for me to be where I'm at right now with a left

hand. So incredible. Um so they found the right antibbody. Go ahead, Tommy.

What was it that she found? It's um uh here's the name of it right here. It's

Was it a medicine? It's a Oh, the the the antibiotic was is

a real simple antibiotic. I Vermeckin I think is what it is.

And then but the but they weren't using that. They were using stronger stuff. No doubt. They were using the stronger stuff and every time they would take me off it, my

hand would blow up. Thus another surgery. Yeah. Let alone your hip and your knee. Yeah. So um and the the bad stuff they

have in there is I mean the the IV antibiotics it kills good stuff and bad stuff. And so it was destroying me. I

was I had internal bleeding which here this leads to something else. So where they took the pick line out, I ended up

with two blood clots. Oh man. And and from where the pick line Well,

that pick line is a direct channel to your heart. That pick line goes all the way to your heart. That's how they dump the the stuff in.

And um uh so I have two blood clots and

they uh they got to put me on blood thinners. Well, they can't put me on blood thinners because I'm bleeding internally. And I got a scheduled

surgery that following Wednesday because they got to get the s the the infection out of my knee and do a knee surgery. So

I can't go on thinners. Well, what that allowed the blood clot to do was get longer and bigger and it I have to go I

have to go in for another ultrasound to see if it's to the point that it would have to be cut out. Um so yeah, my left

arm is killing me all the time because it's just it's it's it's just turned into a pain in the ass. So it uh it was a domino effect but uh

it's called septus something um this disease that this is

uh but any rate so uh it's an infection that goes throughout your body and then finds a home

somewhere like your hip and your knee y and starts destroying your knee. Anything that has cartilage or tendons,

it goes in there and destroys it. Um and uh I'll show you. Let's show Tom

here real quick. So, here's So, that's what they had in my hand.

Holy mackerel. Yeah, Steve, we'll get a picture of this to add to the the video here.

So, I got four tubes in my hand where all the stuff's draining out of it. Um,

and um yeah, it turned into and then here's my pick line up in your armpit area that goes right to your heart.

Three weeks of that stuff. So, it it kicked me in the ass. I've had a lot of injuries in my life, but it's always

something broken. I know what to expect. I know the rehab involved. This thing here, I'm at the mercy of

um doctors and and and God. So

yeah. Any rate, this one here is threw me for a loop. So thank Ivormectton cleared it out. Cleared it

up. Yep. Well, we hope so. It still end up in my hip and my knee. So there's uh the

verdict's still out on that. So but they've had to go in surgically and literally scrape that infection.

Scrape that out. Yeah. Which has just hammered your knee. Yep. And my hand. My hand is a big huge

issue. So, but do you They were able to at least repair a cartilage or miniscus tears

that you had in there. Yeah. While they were in there. While they were in there. Yeah. They they So, that was a silver lining. They got some other stuff that I

just been take some Advil when I get back to my twoman tent, you know, after guiding sheep all day. My knees bother

me. It's kind of swollen up a little bit, but I'm used to that. I'm going to have a complete LCL tear, complete MCL

tear that I never got fixed. Yeah. So they can't repair it now? No. Uh it's too old of injuries, but my

meniscus tear, they were able to clean it up and put a pin on both sides of the tear. So they got some stuff that need

to be repaired while they were in there, too. So, but you still can't hike and still can't walk and you still have a lot of pain.

Yeah. And it's instant arthritis. What they tell me what this is and any research being done on it. And I might

even give this to Steve to post as well if people are interested in it. And that's what I was looking for on my phone, the name of this thing. um is it

gets into your joints and it gives you like a 20-year-old kid. If he got it, it' be the same thing as getting

arthritis of a 90-year-old man. Holy man. It's instant and it it doesn't come back. So, this is what I got.

Yeah. Um so, this is the first year in 42 years you haven't gone to Alaska in the fall

to to guide because Yeah. My this would have been my 19th year with Jonah guiding doll sheep in in

the fall. And I'm missing I get cabin fever really easy. I'm in the outdoors as much as anybody I know. Um, and I

just I'm I'm I'm stuck. I'm stuck here. Yeah. And it's a Yeah.

It's an ass kicker. I don't uh And you can't do your taxiderermy work because of No, I'm just getting to the point where

I can tie my shoes tight enough to where they won't come untied five minutes later. Wow. To be able to use my thumb and my

finger. Uh, putting on a sock is a big ordeal I got to do with one hand. But

yeah, but we'll see what happens. You've been through some injuries and healed for some injuries that were would

flabbergast most people and we may get to some of those, but this has been the

one that's really taking you taking you out for right now. Yeah, the you wanted to get into another

bearer deal with my Glock. Um I had a deal where I was packing out

a stinky moose. Um we couldn't find this moose for a while and finally found it.

We got we're packing it out. It's in my back my backpack. I got a hind quarter in my backpack and all the young packers

they can I I wanted to make a shortcut through the olders and I could see from the other side of the mountain this

patch of olders that if I could find that patch I could save myself a mile of hiking with a hind quarter on my back

which is a big deal. This is a huge amount of weight. And uh so any rate I I'm cussing. I'm

I'm like I made the wrong decision. I'm getting hung up on everything. Finally get through these olders and I find this

spot. So now I know where I'm at. Now I can walk 200 yards into a spot. There's no alders for 200 yards, 30 yards wide.

Well, all of a sudden I hear something behind me crossing crashing through the elders. Like big time crashing. I'm

thinking bear. I fall to my ass, grab my pistol, and a cow moose steps out and

her calf. Actually, it wasn't a calf. It was a yearling or a calf from the year before.

And she's lather she's all lthered up and she collapses. She sees me and she collapses. 10 yards from me. She

collapses. And the the yearling was still standing on all fours acting like it wasn't that big a deal. And then she

saw me and then she tried to get up and then couldn't get up.

She's just been rent exhausted. Well, it's moose season. I mean, the rut's going on. I'm like, you know, well, she's got a yearling with her, so maybe

she's in season, you know. Yeah, it's not a calf. And she's been running ragged here.

You think the bulls are running ragged? Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. And so anyway, she finally after resting a little bit, she got up, went about 30

yards to my left, and collapsed again. She couldn't go. She just couldn't go. Well, then I hear crashing coming again.

I'm like, "Well, here comes the bull." And I mean, it's thrashing. It's coming,

knocking overd. And I'm like, "Well, it's not a bull because I'm not hearing the horns coming through the alders." So

I'm like, "Yeah, shoot." And thank God I did because what stepped out was a grizzly bear. And that's what they do.

They get those those moose in those alders and they just have so much more stamina, so much more muscle that they can

exhaust them to the point they just walk up to them and eat them while they're alive. I never knew that. And u Well, that's what I'm assuming was about to happen with this cuz that's

what he could have done, right? And he steps out and just seeing his

body language and the eye contact and I know it was a case of mistaken

identity. I smell like moose. I got a hind quarter on my back. Um, and he catches movement. The the moose that

where he's standing now is where the moose couldn't go any further and collapse the first time. So everything

smells like moose. He sees movement. He comes he lunges at me and I boom boom

boom shot and I think I'm a good shot. It's only It's less than 10 feet away. I'm aiming at his head and I end up

hitting it in the bicep and he went down on his shoulder and then I just as he's running off I'm

just emptying my clip on him and you I could see his front leg just spinning like a helicopter so I knew I broke his

leg but um yeah if I wouldn't have been armed there I would have been eaten. Yeah. Yeah. I would have been eaten. Um

and then you mentioned one when you first got here about my very first one was with a really good friend of mine

Chris Groco. Um, and uh, he's been to your shop before. In fact, this there recently, but any rate, he he booked a

doll sheep hunt with Jonah, and it was an archery hunt. And we're up there, and

it was it started off really unique. So, it's one of my favorite stories. We're

walking AC. We get across the river and it looked like there's two beavers in

the river and then then I could see it was two two cubs and their and then

their mom was was on the river bank waiting for them. And they get over there to them. They're now they're on

the same side of the river we're on. And she doesn't want nothing to do with us. She sees them too. She barks at her two

cubs. They go running towards her. We're walking out across the the tundra here and then next thing I know I got two

little grizzly bear cubs right at my feet and they're probably maybe 15 20

pounds and I mean they're that that year first year cubs. Yeah. And she barks at them again and they go

running back to her. Well, now we're climbing in sheep country and it's really getting she's getting closer

because they're just curious. She's getting closer and I don't want nothing to do with that S with her cubs and um

so when I say serious there she's 25 yards from us now. So now I got my

pistol out and and I don't have it's it's my belt was too wide to put my the

holster on my belt. So I'm just carrying it in my hand. Now we're getting up into the rocks where I'm having to climb and

I put it up on a rock and then I'd climb up to it. Put it up on a rock. Climb up to it. And once we got in that stuff, she quit. The cubs quit chasing us.

following us. And uh and then my my client goes, "Hey, my belt's a lot narrower. I can put we can I can put

that on my belt." Okay. Yeah, that'd be handy. And um so he put on his belt.

He's carrying my pistol now. And we get we get out of the alders. We get above there. We finally find the sheep and

they moved on us. Well, it took us three hours to get there. We're not going to

go back to our main camp. So we have the emergency blankets a lot of us carry up

there, whatever. Now we look like a couple of breakfast burritos up on the hillside waiting until the next morning.

And so Chris, I'm like, we're going to going to sleep that night. I'm like, Chris, where's where's the pistol? He

goes, it's still on my it's underneath my backpack. All right. So, he's using a backpack as a pillow. I get up before he

does that morning. I got the spideroscope on those sheep and I say, "Hey, Chris, you need to get up. Those

those sheep are rolled over the edge and I know that country over there. We're going to go kill the ram." Get on one. Yeah,

we need to roll. He's bow hunting or he's bow hunting. Okay. And I look up and here's a grizzly bear. We're just in his line of path.

He doesn't know we're there. And my And Chris has a grizzly bear tag, too. Well, I don't want to scare the grizzly bear bear or whatever. And he's already in

bow range. He's already 50 yards away and he's coming right to us. I go, "Chris, we got a bear coming. Grab your

bow." And I I go, "So I go I go, grab going over to He was getting ready

because I told him I had to get ready to go get those sheep." So he's doing stuff with his backpack over there. Well, I go running. I go crawling on my

hands and knees because I don't want to scare the bear. The bear sees me, but I don't think he recognized me being human because I'm on my hands and knees. I

hear my client scream. Chris scream that I hear my tripod that have my spidoscope

on it crash down. And I just get to the backpack. I throw it up thinking there's going to be a pistol there. And there's

no pistol there. But when I threw the backpack up, the bear hit my arm and

grabbed the backpack instead of me. Thank God. And he's where's Chris? And Chris, he's already having the dry

heaves. He's like going into shock. Yeah. And he's the bear gets a hold of the backpack and just starts thrashing the

living [ __ ] out of it. And just shaking it back and forth. And I stand up and I had that that aluminum

foil thing that makes a lot of noise, you know, those uh those space blankets. And I start waving that thing and just,

you know, he's like, "Oh geez, where'd you guys come from?" And he wanted nothing to do with being there no more.

Thank God. He took off running. and and I'm like, "Chris, where the f is that

pistol?" And it ended up being inside his dayack, inside his backpack, you know, so I never would have got to it.

So, needless to say, he never got to carry the pistol again. But, so that was another close call that if he wanted him, he had me. It was the other time I

was not armed. He grabbed the backpack as easily grabbed you. Oh, yeah. It was just It was at the end of It ended up being where you getting

thrashed around. It could have been. Yeah, he just grabbed the backpack instead. I can't imagine two closer calls than

you've had right there. Yeah, those were and the closest closest calls I've had is both times I was unarmed, you know.

So, I think I got to ask a question. What do you mean he had the dry heaves

going into shock? What happens to a person in that situation? You know, I don't know. I don't know if it was any different than um just going

into shock. I mean, I don't know. Uh he wasn't throwing up anything. I mean, he's just over there just I mean, he's

ghostly white. He's he's just Yeah. gone into this That scared the [ __ ] out of

me. Incredible. What happens dramatic? Uh, I don't know. I've had another

client, another situation kind of almost do the exact same thing. Just freeze. Just absolutely freeze,

which is a defense response. It's an automic action, you know? I mean, nowadays, I think

people learned how to just take pictures with their cell phones when something's going on. Like, somebody could get their

ass kicked in a parking lot being ganged up on 10 to one, and you think somebody would jump in and try to help.

Yeah. Hell no. Nowadays, everybody's just doing this with their cell phones, you know, they want to be, you know, they want to be.

But I think that's just you either got it or you don't, you know, I I I didn't

I don't think badly of the person. Um Yeah. He had no control over that. No, it's just an emotion that he's never

experienced before. And at that point, that was my first bear attack. Uh and and I don't know how I would have

reacted had he got a hold of me. I was this. But I knew I had enough sense to me and enough, you know, focus that I I

crawled to the backpack to get the pistol. Yeah. And if I would have got the pistol, I would have shot that bear. And I know I

know I would have shot that bear. There would have been no question in my mind. I didn't because I didn't get the pistol.

Yeah. But um thank God he got a he was content with the backpack. So

now I I that's that's pretty horrifying stuff for anybody. Have one huffing

right over your head for crown right over the one this year. Yeah, I didn't like that one too much. He's right above my crotch and he sees my knee move when I

pull my foot up underneath that bear and I just thought for sure he's going to grab my knee and throw me around like a ragd doll. And he kind of end up injuring her

severely anyway. In a roundabout way. In a roundabout way. Yeah. Um

uh yeah, let me tell you one about when I shot my brown bear. Uh I I took a

really bad fall in Alaska. I mean in in uh in in Kansas. Kansas has

kicked my ass. Um and um so I had to go to a 45 pound bow

and but it was the only year I could hunt brown bear with Jonah. I've been I already guided a couple clients to earn

the right to be able to guide for to hunt one myself. And Jonah's So Jonah's my guide and we

see these two brown bears, giant boores, chasing this s around and

they're getting in like bloodthirsty fights. Hair flying, blood, everything. That must have been awesome to see.

Oh man, the roaring is just insane. Well, finally there's a loser or a one

that gave up and he leaves. Well, now the boar goes over to his SA and they're

on this like thing like like like like this island that's surrounded by where the water's receded. There's all this

tall grass and I know he's in there. I can't see him, but I know he's in there. It's not that big. It's only an area of

about 60 yards circle. So, I know they're in there bedded down. So, I get

in. So, I and I happen to use a 45 pound bow and I'm normally using a 70 pound

bow. That's just how it was back in the day. Everybody had 70 pound bows. Yeah, but I couldn't because of my shoulder.

And uh I mean 50 lb bow. So any rate, I go I'm walking up there and I I I see

the kill zone of a brown bear like 10 yards in front of me and the bear is

laying like this. He's laying and I can totally see, but I don't know what this bore or the SO. So I'm like, God, I just

need a little more elevation here to see. I'm committed now. I mean, Jonah's not with you right now, right?

He can't be. is it's hard enough for one person to be sneaky, you know. I mean, he's close, but he's not there. He

wouldn't be able to do anything, you know. That's how it is when you got a bow hunter. Uh, plus there's a little more confidence level when, you know,

I'm a guide, you know, whatever. So, I there's this stump there that was

kind of dry rotted, but I thought if I could step on that stump and give me just enough elevation, maybe I could see

if that was the boar or not. And I step on this stump and got a little more elevation and laying to my left was this

was the S. Not three yards away, three feet away.

She's laying there and those two other bores have been chasing her so bad. She was beyond exhausted. Uh almost like the

moose being chased so hard. This one here was lthered up like I looked like she had shaving cream on her and

thousands of mosquitoes around her eyelids and her nose and her lips. And I'm like, "Okay, well now now I know

that's the boar." And my whole idea was to shoot him, drop

my bow, grab my pistol, and I don't think I even got that bow at

a full draw. I don't know. I I killed the brown bear. It was a really nice brown bear. Um, and I hit him. I mean,

it was I It helps me to be tunnel visioned where nothing but bushes in a jungle and all I can see is where I need

to hit. you know, it helps me, you know, focus or you can't help but pick a spot. That's the only spot you can see.

So, I went back and shot him and it looked like I didn't get very much penetration and the millionth of a

second that it all happened. And he's roaring, doing somersaults, biting at the where the arrow went in.

She stands up on her hind legs and she's watching and I'm I'm already ready and

she's point blank to you, but she's looking at the board. Yeah. She's looking at the board and I think she's thinking that other board came back and they're fighting again.

Yeah. She comes down on 04s. When she came down on four, she came down on top of my bow and she's smelling my riser. She's

smelling everything about my bow. And I I mean I just got it right here. And if she would have turned to look at me, I

would have had no choice. Yeah. And she the bear at that point quit doing

somersaults and then took off and there was a little canal right there and ran through that and splash. She heard it

and she took off the direction he went. So like that close. That close. So

incredible. Yeah. That's why I always bring an X pair of underwear with me on those on those trips. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

That's that's that's the bear stuff. Incredible. Yeah. Incredible. Have you ever had to

dispatch one with that pistol? Uh the one that I told you I broke the bicep on. Right. Um he he

that's the only one. He didn't make it. I haven't got to shoot anything with my rifle yet that's made for it. Yeah. Yeah. It's all been my 10 million.

375. Ruger. Yeah, the 375 Ruger. Yeah, that's what Tyler Fel carries. Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's

I saw move a black bear back about three feet from about three yards once. That bear wouldn't stop.

Yeah. And he had to shoot it. Yeah. Black bears are aggressive. I've had them bite me. I mean, get a hold of my boot.

Really? I had one one time I was Yeah. It was kind of unique. I was I was climbing a

tree. My client had a branch that was in his shooting lane. And um so I the bears

when you get there, Alaska is different. They're just they hear the plane fl land

and you're flying above it. From the plane, you can look down and see how much dog food's left at the bait. Mhm.

And when they hear the plane coming, it looks like ants. They'll go running to the bait. You get there, there's a half

dozen bears sitting there waiting for you, literally slapping at the dog food bag as you're sorting it out. and you

scare them off and they run up the trees and they ran up the trees and there was this like 200 a couple 250lb

boores, you know, two, three year old boores ran up the tree and I poured out all the dog food and um everything's

good. Went over there with my client. He's up there and he goes, "Man, that one branch is really bothering me. I couldn't have shot that bear or that

bear when they came into the bait." Like, well, okay, we're here to hunt brown bear. We need to get rid of that thing. So, I have to go climb that other

tree. So I took a couple footsteps out of the one tree we were in. Stuck him in that one so I can get up to the crotch

of this tree. But when the bear saw and I'm doing that as black bear on the bait. Well, I think now they think

they've treated me because they're do they always do false charges. Yeah. All of a sudden I got up business false charges.

He hauled ass up that tree thinking he was treating me. Yeah. And he got a hold of the back part of my

boot there. And I fortunately had a

um the 10-inch caret wrench in my back pocket. Yeah, you whack him on the head right on top of the muzzle. You hear the

client said you could hear it echo for like like forever and just right across the muzzle and he just fell over backwards at the bottom of the tree

there, you know. But uh yeah, he just thought he'd treat me. It's just just one of those deals. But yeah, black bear

can be pretty aggressive as well. Oh my gosh. So, but um amazing.

Um yeah, mostly I just I' I've been uh I love

I love guiding Alaska. I take two months off every year to go do it, you know. Um, here's here's a guy also

that got a opportunity to hunt Africa. Oh, yeah. With a was a new concession.

Yeah. And they wanted an opinion on it. But you you agreed to hunt there if you could spot in stock.

Correct. And so I was just so impressed because that's

no easy deal in Africa and everything's on crack because they have so many predators in in that.

Y and was able to kill uh a number of species including

uh really record book Cape Buffalo. Cape buffalo. Y um which you have mounted here.

Impressive dude. Yeah. And I know you were shooting 70 pounds at that time for

Yeah. I blew the dust off the old uh Palmer recurve again cuz I feel I needed that little extra.

Yeah. You know, like for the Elen, these bigger animals, the 3,000lb animals, the Cape Buffalo, things like that.

Yeah. And then Danny was instrumental with building an arrow for me. Yeah. Couldn't have been probably the cheapest

arrow you could ever build. It was just a GT arrow. Um and he ordered these straws to put on

the inside of the arrow. Weight tubes. Yeah. The weight weight tubes in it. I think when we were finally done, it was like

960 grains. Yeah. Uh had a brass insert up front and then a 300 grain uh cutthroat.

Nice. Um which by the way that outfitter is like he's like, "Okay,

I hope you don't mind getting phone calls because I anybody that comes up to shoot a Cape Buffalo and Elen, they're going to use those what you call

cutthroats because they perform so well." Um but they uh um

Yeah. So that what you're talking about as far as that concession, he I didn't want to go visit another continent

and hunt these animals looking out of a blind of a hole that big. I wanted to see the continent. I wanted to see the

country. I wanted to experience. I want to see tracks. I wanted to bump animals. I wanted to sneak up animals. I

And nobody let you do that because of liability. They just wouldn't let you do it. And um so I just wasn't interested in

doing it until I couldn't hunt no more. If I get to the point that I I've hiked too much in Alaska and I have a hard

time getting around, well, then I don't mind sitting in a blind. Yeah. And uh but when I got up there, it was

it was so awesome. I got to hunt this concession where uh it hadn't been hunted before. It was a big concession

and I just had a tracker uh which I think they're psychic how well they can track.

I've heard that about them. Uh yeah, I I can't hold a candle to them. Not even not even a remote line.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I don't equal a one. Uh, these guys are just they're psychic. I don't know how they do what they do. But any rate, I had him and um

it was it was a way way way cool experience. We'd find these natural water holes that look like had trails

the wide as a sidewalk going through the jungle. You still get on your hands and knees, but you'd get to these things and

and um it was neat being at a water hole, seeing giraffe, seeing

rhino, seeing I saw leopard. Um, and then every plains animal you could think

of. So I'm and herds and herds of them. So animals you'd normally see in the zoo I'm seeing totally in their element.

Totally completely wild natural water hole. And I mean I have nothing against the other way. The

No, I mean the guys that I talked to that do those hunts say it's the best thing they ever did. Yeah. I mean I have nothing against it. And and we made some of our own self

blinds. We just taking a saw and making a blind as close to the water had receded too much to where it had been

too far of a shot. Yeah. And it was too much in the open. The water was receded too far. of the bank was 50 yards wide long before the water.

So I couldn't hunt the water anyways. I just had to hunt trail coming in to the water. Um so I just picked the trail where the

wind was right and sit off of it and hope a herd of whatever use that trail. Yeah. But uh I wouldn't mind at all sitting at

a blind. I mean I enjoyed the heck out of it just seeing so many different species. Oh man. Doing the spot and stock you would see

an elen, you would see blue wielder beast, you'd see a neala or whatever. Then you go put a stock on it but you

were seeing like one species. you were seeing, you know, whatever. When you sit at a watering hole, it was besides hunting, it was also

entertaining. It was it was just a wow factor, jaw-dropping of seeing those animals

and just and and they they die around water. That's where the leopards are waiting for him. No different than me

off a trail. So, they're they're on pins and needles. Yeah. And that's that's what I told the outfitter when when I we went back to

his concession where he is he wanted to get into bow hunting and and he hated

bow hunters. But the the the whole trend and all his competition was bow hunting.

Bow hunting. Bow hunting. So he wanted to get into that. And I he showed me one of his spots. It was 35 yards away from

the water and the blind. And I go, "Well, you're too far away." He kept on complaining about they're jumping the

string. Jumping the string. I go about 35 yards away, they're going to jump the string. I mean, they're

coming into water. That's when the animals on especially in Africa on pins and needles, right? And so they're looking for anything any

reason to turn inside out as opposed to a trail coming into the blind, you know,

where they're a little more relaxed or whatever. I said, but if you're hunting over water, you're way too far away.

Did you find that when you got away from the water spot and stock was more like a normal animal that you

might hunt here? Absolutely. Very docile. Okay. More relying on their own elements regards to

it's a herd. So you got eyes looking every direction and they lay butt to butt like a lot of sheep do and stuff. So they they're just

a lot more relaxed. But they do get up and move around because they know there are three or four buddies over there that are beded down.

Yeah. Will sound the alert if anything's going on. Well, then you got one that's 70 80

yards away from everybody else. Yeah. That I'm sneaking up on, you know. But, uh, but like what I told this guy,

their primary is defenses or nose, just like an animal we hunt here and get the

wind right. It's doable. Yeah, it's doable. I did it. I mean, I I shot 11 different species. Well, 10

different species. I killed two blue werbeast. Um, and I shot the number two

um, Niala and I shot the the Cape Buffalo um, that they called Helmet

Head. Um, that Leopo record. I don't know how he is in regards to the world,

but South Africa Leopo area. Yeah, he was according to the outfitter was the biggest one they had shot. And then I

got number five sable. Geez. Um, so but I I'm hunting deer and elk. I

know what a big bull is. Yeah, I can usually judge a deer within six, seven inches. I can judge an elk

within six, seven inches. I was at their mercy. I mean, it looked bigger and [ __ ] to me. They're like, "No, that's that's below grade."

Yeah. I'm like, "You don't understand. I'm a bow hunter. I'm 20 yards from this thing. I can shoot him now. I don't care." They're like, "No, he's not

that's that's not our grade. We want you to take." And uh so it was uh it was really really cool being in there in the woods with

those things. And um uh I remember you telling me they held you off several Cape Buffalo too that looked

bigger than this dude you had. The Cape Buffalo I got. So it's kind of a cool deal. He he broke out of this

concession and went into native land. Native land was like 6 million acres.

But the natives knew this guy knew this of this buffalo. And they gave the outfitter I was going through first

right of refusal to go after him because every outfitter around there wanted to get him. And um they found him and it

was the day I was leaving and I'd already had a bad argument with the outfitter because I was trying to get a

Cape Buffalo for three days. And what they do is they drive around with a one of those trackers on the front of the

pickup and they do about 5 miles an hour. All a sudden the guy raises his hand up in the air, look down and say,

"Hey, this is this is a good buffalo." Based on the track. Based on the track. Yeah. And I'd go put my heel in the dirt,

wiggle it back and forth, pull it out. I go, "Tell me the difference between that track and that track." You couldn't tell. Yeah. And they would just kind of just smile.

And then every road was 2 miles by two miles by two miles. So then once they once it crossed the road and went into a

two- mile by two mile jungle, they would circle to make sure he was still in there. Then we'd go back to the original

track and we'd follow it. Well, the wind was to our back. I'm like, "What? What are you guys doing?" Yeah.

And we did that for three days. Like, "Okay, you you've educated every single buffalo around here that we're after them."

Yeah. I'm not doing this. you guys are a bunch of having an argument over it. Yeah. I was like, "You guys are a bunch of ain't going to happen." And he he got

offended and I don't mean to offend any re I just this he wasn't doing a very

good job at it. He was just stupid. So he was hoping that he goes, "Well, we always are hoping that they're going to

take a hard left or a hard right and then we'll be able to get a crosswind or whatever." Yeah. And uh so any rate, I hadn't killed I I

didn't get to kill a kudu. I never did get to kill a kudu. So I go, I'm going kudo hunting my last day. He flies off

with a helicopter. A helicopter picks him up an hour later. And I'm like, "Well, what the hell's going on here?"

And that night he comes to my room after the helicopter brings him back and he says, "Herold, you got to stay. I'll pay your

transfer fees. You need to stay here and kill this buffalo." I'm like, and he tells me a

story how it broke out of his concession and it's on native land. And he goes, "I

got people on retainer that will pay me 50 grand to go shoot this buffalo." And

I'm like, "Well, then go call him." I don't have that. I don't have any money. He goes, "Well," he goes, "Now I'm glad

you mentioned money." He goes, "If you killed it with me, I wanted the reputation of somebody with a stick bow killing a cape buffalo."

Yeah. He goes, "And I wasn't going to charge you." He goes, "But this

the country of the the Native Corporation says this thing's worth 8,000 bucks. That's what I got to pay.

That's my That's my price. He goes, I'll split it with you. I go, I don't have 4,000 bucks.

He goes, I'll pay your transfer fees. You can stay here. Everything. I'm like, I don't have 4,000 bucks,

but I had a Willy's Jeep here that I've been fixing up and I was going to So, I'm like, God, I could sell that. My

wife, she's like, man, it sounds like a pretty good opportunity. And I'm like,

do I get to do it my way? We don't walk with the wind to our back. He goes, "No, this ain't gritted. This is six million

acres of just open land. We'll do it your way." Yeah. I'm like, "Okay." He goes, "But there's one catch. You got to use a rifle." I'm

like, "Well, then no deal. I'm out." Yeah. And he storms off, comes back 20 minutes

later, goes, "Okay, if they say if you're dumb enough to do it with a bow that

we will uh they won't charge us 8,000 until we shoot one.

Cool. So, we get out there and we It took us like three days to find this herd. Um, and we finally found them and

uh I got a picture of him. I don't know if Steve can integrate this thing in later. There's all these there's nine bulls underneath this tree and two bulls

get up. This giant bull gets up and he's walking by and he's going to walk by 25 yards from me. I lock up and I'm going

to shoot and the guy goes, "You shoot this bull, you pay the whole 8,000. You pay your own transfer fees. You pay everything." I'm like, "What?" He goes,

"We're here for helmet bowl. We're here for that one over there farthest to the right. You can't shoot this one." I go,

"It looks bigger to me." He goes, "We're we're here for that one because everything is about the bosses." You

look at the bosses on this one up here. Yeah. And everything's about the boss. I'm like, "Dang." So, I'm thinking, "God, what can I sell

my Jeep for? I'll go ahead and pay the $8,000, you know?" Yeah. And uh so he walks on and then two

days later we get on them again and the sun's gumbling up and it's taking two days to to locate them

again. Yeah. And uh well to get them in archery. We always knew where they were after we found them the first day.

But you couldn't approach or whatever. Took two days of back which was driving these guys crazy. I go where they're in range with a rifle

right now. Here's a rifle. I ain't shooting with a rifle. Yeah. Um you're bow hunting. So that's what bow hunting takes.

So we had to camp on them which made them really irritated. Yeah. And um finally they got into another situation.

So I'm 60 yards from them and they're all beded down around this tree and now

they're fighting over shade. They're starting to push each other around and they two get up. The one they wouldn't

let me shoot three days prior or two days prior and the one they wanted me to shoot got up together and they're

walking out and I'm like and I can tell they're going to be about 60 yards off and I'm taking a guess where they're

going to be. There's this other shade tree over there and and there's a tree between that's going to be that's not a

shade tree, but it's big enough that I can climb it if they want to kill me, if I can get to it. So, I'm throwing my bow

in front of me, crawling up to it, and throwing my bow in front of me, crawling up to it, and I finally get about 10

feet shy of the tree that I'm going to have to jump in if they don't like me. And the big bull that they wouldn't let

me shoot earlier, two days earlier, saw me. And he's on the other side of the bowl they wanted me to shoot. and he

sees me, catches my movement, and he whirls the turn to leave. Well, the bull

they wanted me to shoot was already on my side. I mean, he's he's all good. And they didn't want me to take a pure

broadside shot. They had to be a little bit because everything's up front. Mhm. A little bit quarter way.

Yeah. And they And their ribs, they always say they overlap. They don't overlap, but there's only like 38 of an

inch of meat between the ribs. Okay. And when they turn toward you, they that's when they do overlap.

Huh. because it just it just kind of makes like an accordion type thing. They kind of will do that. And then when they kind of turn away,

they kind that's where the spreadest part they're going to be. Well, he saw his buddy leave and he turned to look at him, which is like a

not quartering away, like almost broadside, just like one step, you know, just like an eighth of a type thing,

right? And I shot an arrow went in I thought about two inches. Yeah. He's running off with my arrow bouncing

out of him. It wasn't it wasn't rigid because if you hit the shoulder, it's sticking there. solid. It's stiff, you

know, and it's just kind of flopping around. And and then now the the herd, they see it

all. They get up and then the outfitter, he's like 100 yards away and he comes walking over and

he stops about 50 yards from he's glassing and he goes like this to me

and my packer, which was right behind me, he he comes he kind of catches up

with me and and he goes, "Well, this is why I wanted you to shoot with a rifle. Take a look at this." hands me my the

binoculars. I look and there's the bull chewing my arrow. Shoeing the arrow,

looking right at us. And it's the bull that they like total insult.

Yeah. And it's the bull they wouldn't let me shoot the day before. I mean, two days before. He's chewing my arrow. I'm

like, "Well, I don't know what the deal here is, but he either picked it off the ground or he pulled it out of that other

bowl. I didn't shoot that bowl." Yeah. He goes, "Well, it was so dusty. I could tell you didn't have no penetration, but

I I really couldn't caught up in the I couldn't tell which bullet it was. I just know you didn't get any penetration. And he goes, "Well, that's

your bull now. Um, you're going to have to use the rifle." And at that point, I'm like, "Yeah, what's the chance of me getting up on this thing now that I've

already stuck and uh and I'm going to have to pay the 8,000 regardless because it's drawn blood. You get it. It's your

buffalo." And then about that time, the acid of a buffalo come off. He'd been laying there dead the whole time anyways. And you're still convinced you

shot the wrong bull at this point. No, I I shot the he he didn't he thought I shot the wrong bull because he wanted to shoot the wrong bull.

Yeah. He wanted me to shoot that bull that and I'm like And then the when the when my PH showed up, I mean my my guide

per se. Yeah. He he he he didn't speak English, but he validated no, he shot the right bull.

Yeah. And the guy's like, "Well, what the hell's going on?" We look over the heard and that's when we saw the ass of my bull come off the ground and they were

over there beating the [ __ ] and the bull they wouldn't let me shoot was chewing my arrow and he was about 50 yards away

from the main. So they were hooking him and lifting. Oh, lifting him up just kicking the [ __ ] out and he's dead as a doornob. Yeah. So now everybody's got to leave

and we can't get close to them because when they smell blood they're just weird. So now everybody leaves and they

have to go. You're getting away from the herd. These guys are all riled up. I'm staying right there because I do have a triac I can

climb. Everybody else goes, but everybody else leaves to go get the vehicles because there's no other way we can get this thing. Okay. So, about four or five hours later, we

hear the chainsaws coming, the the vehicles are coming and they're cutting down way getting in there and stuff. And

then the rest of the herd hears that and they leave. Okay. And now I finally get to go see my bull.

And I mean, it's I mean, I was just I mean it's just the wow factor is just insane. Stunning. Yeah. I mean, they're the they're you know,

you know, 3,500 pound animal. They're just it's just incredible. And then there was another bull about 100 yards

off that was dragging intestines. And um I go, "Holy cow, if somebody needs to put that sucker down because he got

hooked and all the fighting that they were doing." Yeah. And the the the the the

tribal person that was with us says $8,000 you can you can kill it. They have no value of life or suffering.

They don't care. They just don't care. $8,000 you can put off as misery. Yeah. But otherwise just And they left

him. Yeah. They left him. Yeah. So, yeah, that so that's how that's how I got my buffalo. Incredible. So, what happened? Did it go

in and come right back out? That's what it did. And I sent Danny the pictures. They wanted some advertisement for uh for your guys' broadhead. So,

what it did, you could It was really unique. You could see where it hit about a half inch from between the ribs.

Mhm. And instead of stabbing, it twisted. And when it did, it slid over to between the

ribs. Yeah. the single bevel just twisted right just twisted it right over there and it went over and hit the ribs on the

other side and bounced back out. Yeah. And that's that's what I was seeing. Incredible. Yeah. And uh and then when it hit the

rib on the other side, it split it, you know, but it didn't have it didn't have enough there to go in through it.

Yeah. It already hit one rib going in. Slow it down some. Massive Cape Buffalo. How thick are

those ribs? Um they're I'd say 3/4 of an inch thick.

Geez, it's a big bunch of bone. tools out of them. I mean, they I mean, it's it's a they're big rib

and it it there's no way if I would have dead centered that rib, I don't who knows what that

cutthroat would have done then. I I don't know it would have done a whole lot, right? But out of a recurve, but what was unique about that single

bevel is it hit and it it it rolled it and because the rib is kind of rounded

like this, it just followed the contour of that rib and found the space between the ribs.

Yeah. And blew completely over to the other side. Amazing. Yeah. So amazing. And it was a quick death in

Oh yeah. He went 60 yards and piled up double lung. Yeah. That's honestly single bevels I I know they spin through

tissue. It's got to gurgle their lungs because when you dugle double lung an animal with a single bevel most of the

time you see them fall. They die really fast. I don't know what that's all about. So, I mean, he was I

mean, I got to do a couple safari hunts with him where they were hunting with rifles and he he just was blown away that it

went it probably went 80 yards and he died. Yeah. I go, "Well, here's the difference. No matter what wildlife show you watch on

TV, whether it's Disney or whatever or Wild America and you see a bunch of lions trying to

kill a Cape Buffalo, right? They have four or five on their back and the Cape Buffalo is looking at the rest of the prize say, "Hey, come on. I'll

take all of you on." Their their will to live and to fight incredible is is incredible. Where a zebra, they take it

down. They're eating it while it's still alive because they go into shock. They don't have no will. They they lose it.

And I think that's nature's way of just keeping them from suffering. I mean, it's whatever. They go into shock. But a cape buffalo, they're like, "Come on,

you two over there. I'll take you, too." Yeah. And so when you shoot them with a 600 grain bullet, it knocks the dust off

them. They know something's really messed them up. And it puts them in that mode of fight and flight.

Yeah. And so that's why they're so hard for rifle. I mean, the first shot's just that's when the guy, that's when the hunt starts, then they go find them

again and find them again. Where this bow, it's like all of us bow hunters know. It's no different than

when you're working with a razor blade and next thing you know, you're like, "Well, where'd this blood come from?" You don't remember, you don't you don't

feel cutting yourself. And because it's so so you just don't feel nothing. So this buffalo, he knew

he wasn't feeling good. Yeah. But that he never felt that. He never had that flight or right or adrenaline

rush to to fight back or whatever. He just tipped over dead, you know.

And now your your outfitter was depressed. Oh, he's like, "Oh, okay. This blown away, right?" Yeah. He's like, and even with he goes

he co 19 hit unfortunately. Said I can come back there and kill as many and whatever I want to if I would do some

consulting how to set up his archery concession because I helped him a little bit with a couple of the ones he had,

right? It was a the one the one I said was 35 yards away. He goes, "Well, how do I fix it?" I go, 'Well, have this be a sistern

and dig 15 yards closer to the blind, reemerge it, and put your bathtub here.

Because all there was was like a little bathtub they were filling with water. Yeah. And I go and just cover this up.

Yeah. And that was 15 yards. So by the time I left, that was it. Everybody was fighting over that watering hole.

They were killing the [ __ ] out of stuff because not to say you still can't jump the string at 15 yards, but it's going

to be way tougher. Your shots way more accurate. He goes, "Yeah." And he goes, he goes, "Well, my my compound guys, they're not

going to like that close of a shot." I go, "If a giant sable is

15, 20 yards away or a giant and another one comes in that's the same size and is that standing out there 35 yards? Which

one you think your freaking bow hunter is going to shoot? Your compound guy, he's going to shoot the 15 yard one." I go, "So, it doesn't make any

difference." And he's like, "Well, zebras, they won't come in. They're nocturnal." I go, "Well, don't make

don't let them." I go, "It's it's three feet by three feet. Put a tarp over it. Don't let them drink at night. Make them

come in during the day. Make them do it. Well, they come in staring at the blind. You know, like you

say, they're they're on edge all the time and everything's head-on shots. I'm like, don't let them drink head on. Put some

logs. You got timber all over the place. Make them where they have to come in broadside. You know, funnel them in. I

go, but they they're not bow hunters. They don't. What's second nature to us if we're hunting that watering hole and

you're seeing I'm like you you'd get out the blind, you go grab some stuff and move them over there. Yeah. where he didn't that wasn't logical that he

thought I was like the smartest person in the world and I wasn't I was just this is what I would do if I was bow hunting here and he wanted me to come

back but co hit and that blew all that stuff those opportunities that's too bad oh that's just uh incredible stuff

uh you know more people know need to know how lethal these these bows are now

you've hunted with one bow your whole life pretty much uh it's one Palmer recurve

correct That's pretty much taken all your game with. Yep. Everything in this room was killed with by Palmer.

Incredible. Yeah. I've got one other set of limbs that are 56B limbs that he got me when I

had to have my shoulder operation and but I I can only think of two animals in

here I shot with my 56 pound limbs. Everything else is with the 70. That tells you how old some of this

taxiderermy is. Yeah. Um so do you know how many of the big game

species in North America you've taken? 21 of the 21. 21. Yeah. Beautiful. Do you have any desire to go after the

other ones? I do, but they're all the big money stuff. Yeah. This is where it stops. Average guy. Yeah. Uh I mean, I still need like the

woodland caribou and the mountain caribou. Uh I've got the other three, but those when I was hunting the other

three, the Quebec Labador, the Baron Ground, were $2,500 hunts, right? And so were they. Now those are 25,000

30,000. Oh my gosh. Um it's just out of sight. I mean I was able to get my doll sheep from guiding

um um and and just working it off in labor. Yeah. Otherwise I never could have afforded it

either. I could afford the blue collar guy and that's what you know me and Jonah have talked about this before is

our quality of hunter has gone not not as good as it used to be because now the people that can afford it are rich guys.

Yeah. Yeah. And rich guys doesn't mean you're a good hunter. It just means you can afford the hunt. Yeah. So, our quality of hunters have gone way

down. So, the back in the day where you're a guy that's a bluecollar guy and he's saving his money. He's telling his

family and his friends, you work hard. You're on the tools. You're in shape. Yeah. Yeah. All that. And he's telling his family and friends, "Hey, come my

birthday, come Christmas, don't give me gifts. Put a $20 bill on a Christmas card for me. I'm saving to go to

Alaska." He saves his whole life. His dreams come true. He's he always spends his vacation with his wife and his three

kids, but now the he's got the biggest fan core of all his family. They say, "Dad, you finally got the money. You're

going on this sheep hunt." So, that kind of guy, there's nothing you won't do for as a guy. You work your tail off for those guys. And those guys, there's nothing they

won't do for you. And we were like 100% successful. I mean, it was just it was just good. Now,

that personality has changed to where the blue collar guy can't save $40,000

to go on a sheep hunt. You can't do that. So now you're getting the guys that can afford it, but it like I said, it doesn't mean they're it

doesn't mean they're hunters. And in a lot of cases, they're not. Yeah. It's just a nostalgia thing for them.

And u Jonah's really good about policing some of these guy, most of these guys. And we got a pretty solid core of

hunters and guides. I mean, all stellar guides he has. And and but he he does

his homework. He tells people no. I mean, yeah. I mean, there's some of these people you couldn't fit in a sub super cub, you

know? It's just that kind of deal. So our quality of hunters gone down. So our success rates have gone down, but it's

not because of the animals. Yeah, the sheep have taken a hit, a winter kill, you know, four or five years ago, but not not to the point that

it's not any different than any other time that the sheep took a winter kill. There's always they're always there.

It's just a cycle. Yeah. And they replish and it all goes good. And we've and but our numbers went down,

but it wasn't because of the of any kind of winter kill or any kind of die- off.

It was because our quality of hunters as is dissipated enough that I think we're seeing a percentage of that's the reason

why we're not as successful. So, right. And you see it in the lower 48, too. some of these high-end hunts and you see

some of the people with the ability of the hunt forms like we were talking earlier of

us looking at seven minutee maps 30 years ago topo maps going down to the fed center and getting our topo maps and

sitting down with a little 4-inch ruler and our compass and doing latitude and longitude and and figuring out where you

want to go by based on lines on a map and intermittent streams on a map. I

couldn't do Google Earth. I couldn't see what it looked I had to be boots on the ground to see what it looked like. Yeah.

And I really got good at reading maps without being on the mountain, you know, on how many faults. Like, man, this

according to the map, this is an intermittent stream. This should be a boggy area. It should be good for elk. I'd go in there and I don't know why the

map said it was an intermittent stream because there was nothing there. Um, and but you ended up, that's how we had to

do it back in the day. That's where you found a wallow. Yeah. That's how you found stuff. You got north slope on a saddle. There was just features like that. Look,

Tommy, do you remember being a high school kid, meeting Harold and looking at his trophy book?

No, I I was in college when that happened. Okay. So, you were in college for a

while. Gotcha. Yeah.

Yeah. We're talking about the friendship we've had for a heck of a lot of years.

And uh you know, Harold's been the guy, right? He's been the the guy that you uh

like you try to emulate as much as possible. It's impossible. But that's a guy that we've always liked so much. You

know, I know Tommy labeled me in some of the postings he put as like one of the better bow hunters you'll see that

nobody knows. And nobody knows about and that's always been by design. Uh it's funny on some of

these guided hunts I do where everybody's got a thousand dollar Sitka outfit on, thousand Cuyu outfit on and

it's a it's a video hunt. Yeah. And now I'm supposed to be in the video and I'm cramping their styles

because I still have my flannel shirt and my my fatigues that I got at the Army Surplus and they're like, "Yeah,

you're cramping our style." So, a lot of the good clothes I got, I was They give it to me. They give it to me for the film. Yeah. For the film.

Um I don't get no sponsorships. I don't, you know, uh it's u I'm not saying I

don't I I do this podcast. I enjoyed them. I did them with Aaron Snyder. Enjoyed doing them. I've done them with

Stickbo Chronicles. I've done it with uh the stick boys. I've done it with other places. This is this is fun. Common

camaraderie with guys that hunt with a stick and a string. And uh but as far as popularity, people

are like, "God, all the stuff you've done, you know, all these guys are making they're getting paid to go hunting."

You know, Fred Ier said, "Man, with the stuff you got going, man." He goes, "You you need to get serious. You could

because I get paid to go." Yeah. And I I just don't have the personality for that. I just I I don't know. I it's

it's been by design. Do it for the love. You're like Danny. Danny's very private. He is unbelievable hunters. We all know that. Yeah. He's

amazing things. He doesn't want the attention. He does it for himself. Yeah. I mean, we want him to be the poster boy for

RMS gear, but that's not what he desires. He doesn't desire, you know, that spotlight or notoriety. You That's

not the reason you guys do it. Right. Right. We talked earlier is I got a photo album here and everything in

here is in it, but it's all selftimers. Yeah. Yeah. mostly alone. And this is film.

It's It's the pictures I have my phone are pictures of pictures because Right. Yeah. I didn't get a cell phone until like two and a half years ago. I just

they didn't we didn't have a cell tower here, so they didn't work at my house. Yeah. It's a tight canyon. What I do for a living is in the middle of nowhere, so

they don't work there. But the damn camera in these things are better than the three pound camera I was carrying. Yeah.

So I was like, "Shit, best of all worlds here." So, and you still don't use Google Earth. to use. I don't know how to Danny. I just blown

away every time I go down there and he'll start doing overlapping and 3D image and look from the north, look from the south. I'm like, and I know Tommy's

the same way. It's like, oh yeah, he is. How the heck I I te technology is I'm old school,

which is why my body's warm. I think my boys Tommy, you we had we went to the fed center and got maps. I

mean, you you guys were just old enough to to have learned that system of navigation and seeing what the country

was all about. You can hunt a lot smarter now than we did before. Yeah. It's kind of why we loved Google Earth

so much is because we already loved maps, you know, and so when Google Earth came

out, we we jumped on it cuz we enjoyed maps. We liked mapping,

you know, but now with everything that's out there, I I don't know. It's taken away a lot.

I don't like it. Yeah. The old school I mean, I don't know. I I need to learn technology and I

could hunt a lot smarter if I did. Um I could by the time I find a spot the old

school way, I've already got 10 miles where I could have made it a mile if I just knew Google Earth.

Yeah. Um and um or and that's the other reason I got a phone. A friend of mine would

say, "Hey, you know, here's a pin. Will you help me pack out this elk?" I go, "What's a pin?"

Yeah. He he goes, "You don't have hunt onx?" I'm like, "What's hun Onyx?

He goes, "Well, how are you going to help me?" I go, "Well, just tell me what drainage you're in. You know, I'll figure it out." And um you know, by

grabbing my map, you know, but he goes, "No, no, no." He goes, "You need to get Han Onyx. You need I'll drop you a pen

and it'll drop it'll bring you right to me." And uh I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] this stuff's pretty damn cool." You know,

it's pretty darn nice. It's a tremendous tremendous tool. And yeah, and some of my best hunting spots have been because I was lost

because I couldn't find my camp. So now I can put a pin where my camp's at and I probably won't

in the dark it really easy. Yeah. Yeah. So it kind of helps too. So yeah, when when we started hunting there

wasn't the internet. No, there wasn't hunting shows. I mean the Fred Bear videos and the old American

sportsman show were what motivated me to be a bow hunter. Uh we had to learn it by our mistakes.

But honestly, do you ever feel like sometimes you kind of long for the

mystery of it? Back when we started, everything was such a mystery. Mhm.

And when you discovered things, it was so cool. Yeah. And and uh I think that younger guys

don't have that advantage of of the of having the mystery of it all. And

it's all laid out for them. Yeah. the young people and the new hunters of today. When we were hunting, you bought a deer tag and you hunted the

whole state of Colorado. There was no units for deer for archer deer tags. You go anywhere you want. There was there was and I have an old

old old um hunting app uh I mean brochure and I think it's 1992

1992 I think it is. There was only like 11 elk over uh units you had to put in for

you still hunt the rest of the state. 90% of the state you could hunt with an overthec counter tag for archery rifle.

They still had the units. Yeah. And then they changed all that. And um so if you backpack, you saw nobody up there

with you. No. And the main thing I'm getting at is when you said the mystery of it all. I never I purposely never hunted the same

place twice. Like like holy [ __ ] you shot 180 inch mu deer. Are you going to go back?

I should. I know it like the back of my hand now. And I know there are deer there, but man, you're seeking the mystery. I I I want I

want to I'm going to go I'm going to try somewhere new, you know. And so I I that was my goal to keep the the mojo

going regards of something new and doing something different every year in a whole new spot, even though I already

knew where to go. And in a pinch, if that new spot wasn't good, I always had a plan B of where I went, where I knew

it was good. Yeah, it was always a plan B. Uh but once you got that first one under your belt, that was always your plan B. Then you could

go explore the state of Colorado and hunt somewhere different every single year. And if it didn't pan out, you

always had your plan B where you knew they were at and these guys all missed that.

Now you got to put in four or five years a unit that you to get a decent unit. Yeah. To get a decent unit without a whole bunch of other people

and you got all your eggs in one basket whether they're or not. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah.

It's a little tougher now that it's changed. I I'm so glad I was born what I was and got to do what I did and

and got the trophies I did and the experiences I did because my at the age I'm at now, 63 years old, the next tag I

draw and I put in for every state that has a preference point system, the next tag I draw will be my once in

a-lifetime tag. I'll never have enough points to draw that tag again. Right. It'll never happen. I can't do it. Yeah,

it'll never happen. Yeah. I'm a max point holder in Arizona for Desert Sheep and I should be able to

draw a Desert Sheep tag. So, I'll have three of the four. Um, and uh, well, assuming I'll get a

desert cheap, but yeah. But, um, and then I can start putting for the three quarter draws that a lot

of these places have. You got to have three of the four and if you if they pull your name out of the hat, then

they'll give you they'll pay for a hunt for the one you don't have. So, if I ever get a grand slam, it will be the

cheapest grand slam on record ever. Yeah. Because it's all would have been on labor, drawn loan, tags, and that kind

of thing. Yeah. So, well, Tommy, you're 43 now. You've seen the changes in in your lifetime as a

younger man. That's for sure. I'm bummed about it, honestly. I I just kind of try not to talk about it too

much because otherwise all I would do is complain. Um, but you know, it's funny you guys were talking about the mystery.

Um, I purposefully don't use those cell phone trail cameras when we're deer hunting because I don't want my boys to

know, right? I was sitting in a tree stand uh last year and a buddy that I

know that hunts the same woods was like, "Hey, there's a buck coming your way." And I was like, "Oh, cool. Where where are you sitting?" He's like, "Oh, I'm at

work right now." And two minutes later, a buck walked right underneath me. And I was like, "Don't tell me. I don't want

to know." You know, so I I have purposely stayed away from that stuff just so that my boys

get get to experience the mystery because I don't I don't know a better way to put it than that. Yeah. You know, and like

when we were growing up, we we were skipping school to go elk hunting. And every morning it was it was

it wasn't like, hey, let's go up this ridge and then walk around there. It was more like we're just going to stand right here until sun sunrise and then

we're just going to chase the bowl that sounds the hottest. You know what I mean? It wasn't uh

there was elk everywhere. They were all screaming their heads off. There were leftover tags. And yeah, I'm 43 right

now. I haven't hunted that spot for 5 years. I should draw in the next year or two. Um, and that will be the only time

that I get to hunt that area in my 40s. You know, luckily that Colorado has made

it easier for kids to get tags with the second draw and that sort of thing. And so my boys have been able to hunt, get some good elk hunts in, but uh it bums

me out. I'm I'm bummed. Yeah. I mean, uh, my grandsons are as

valuable to me as you guys were, and I I, uh, I'm I'm sad that they won't have the opportunity to see what I've seen

and you guys have seen. Yeah, me, too. I hope we get to experience some of that

before. And you guys were talking I don't know if uh if we were recording,

you know, when I was trying to get set up, you guys were talking about um parking in in the parking lot in that

mountain range. Yeah. Yeah. and there's 17 cars and 15 of them are from out of state. And

that's the absolute truth. You know, Harold told a story that it's the same story I always tell. We used to see guys

back in those back basins where we'd spent a lot of time getting in there and if we saw a guy back there, it was like,

hell yeah, good for you. You know, good luck because we knew what it took to get back there and how he had to have found

that place. Um, but now there's, you know, three three tents every year in

the honey hole in that basin and it's guys that have never elk hunted before. I have no idea how they find it, but

there's it's just it's overrun. Yeah. So, I don't know. The technology and Google Earth, that stuff was really fun

when it first came out and and we were we were all over it because like I said, we loved mapping. We liked navigating

and so when that came out, that was fun. Um, but I I think it's overdone it now and it's I don't know. Like I said, I

could be pretty pessimistic and complain about it. So, I try not to do that because there's still a lot to enjoy.

You know, you know, it's not like it's all gone. You're exactly right. Like Jason Carter from Epic Outdoors,

um he interviewed me. And matter of fact, he got 10 pages dedicated to me in one of their cataloges, one of their

magazines. And he was honest about it. He I did a podcast with him where I called in kind

of like you are now. And he goes, "Well, what do you think's hurt the industry the most?" I go you guys like you these

hunt forums these all the the internet this the people with the everybody

these people that think they're hunters that a guy got out and got lucky shot a 200 inch mu deer but he wants to be able

to tell Gar Carter Jason Carter Fred Iller

um u uh anybody else that's famous out there Chuck Adams or whatever um They

want Randy Mer's. They want to be like, "Hey, I want to be the the the the the

champion of telling all these people where the where I shot this 200 inch buck." Well, now now that same guy is

like, "Well, [ __ ] now I can't even get a tag there no more. There's tons of people there." And the point creep went from one point I could draw it every

other year to now I can never draw it again. Maybe every five years. But the biggest thing that's hurt it is

everybody wants to be the hero of the day for everybody out there on these hunt forums. They want to be able to say, "Well, here's a pin exactly where

you need to be. Here's my glassing knob. Here's this." And they give it to the whole world. Then it gets posted on

these hunt forums. And then these guys go up there and they get on this glassing knob and they're sharing it with a half dozen people. You know,

ruins the experience for everybody. And then the animals that have called this home, they've called it home for

some educated hunters that knew when to bump them, knew when not to bump them, knew when to back out, and knew when the

opportunity was there, and you better take advantage of it. But they left it alone and those elk could always call that home. Well, now with all these

people that don't have the experience to back out, they just like, "Holy [ __ ] now it's a foot race. I got to get there before those guys over there get there

and I don't know where those guys that pulled in before me are going." So, if I see an elk or I see a deer, I better get there right now. So, now it's to me, I

don't I don't call that fun. It's like, and now the deer and elk are in different spots. You've never seen them

before. They're not at the normal spots anymore because people don't know better and don't know when to back out and they

and they can't handle that kind of pressure. Yeah. The places we found were remote and they kind of they never experienced that

pressure. Well, deer elk don't like it. They don't get used to it. They don't. And my hopes are there'll be some guys

that, you know, they're newer to it here in this game and hear this kind of talk and start considering this stuff and

they're going to be more successful. Yeah. If they're willing to wait a day and just watch them when the wind's bad. Someone needs to post something about

hunter ethic, too. Um, we talked about a little bit earlier where I took a really I've lost our friendship because I

wanted a guy kill his first elk. I took him to my honey hole. I said, "Hey, keep this close to your chest. Don't I don't

want to be an out or sound like a real jerk to anybody, but when you work as hard as we work for our our spots,

you're real selective on who you take there. You It's a real trust factor." And there's there's so many people that

they don't know the hunter ethic part of it. They don't know. They don't know. They don't even know better. They don't

know that they've stepped on somebody's toes. They don't even know like, "Oh man, I didn't mean to get you all been out of shape out here. I just

We need to, you know, yeah, softly educate them." It's national forest. I thought anybody

can go. Yeah, but you wouldn't even know about it unless I told you. I mean, so yeah, it is national forest, but man, I

told you to keep this close to your chest, and there's a reason for that. And they just don't have the under the hunter ethic. I would never go to a spot

that somebody took me. I will never ask somebody. We never ask somebody where they're hunting because

if we happen to show up there, we don't want them to think we jumped their spot. I don't want to know. Yeah. Yeah. So,

you know, I don't ask what unit they're in unless it's a once in a something tag and that's all public information as far

as I'm concerned. Right. Right. Yeah. Things like sheep, things like stuff like that where it's once a lifetime.

I I' I've never not picked up my phone and done everything I could for anybody. Yeah. Uh including Well, I have to Randy

Mer, uh Danny. I mean, anybody's had that tag. I've helped two people this year. Yeah.

Um fact, the sheep's out there in the bucket that I just helped a guy get just three weeks ago. Nice. Um just walking him to it, you know,

just telling him my spots where I know he's going to see sheep. He's panicking up on the house. He's in reaching me. He's like, "Man, I'm right where you

told me to be." I go, "You're too high. You're too high. You need to go further." He goes, "Man, I'm gonna lose all my altitude. Do you want to find sheep or not?" He goes, "Holy [ __ ]

you're right. They're in the trees." you know. So, um, so it is, uh, it would be nice

for people to just have some hunter ethics. Otherwise, you wouldn't have to be so tight lipped about stuff. You just kind of would know that that person

knows. Yeah, it's a, you know, guys, if you're not used to this, it's a touchy question to say, "Where are you hunting this

year?" That's a touchy question because especially in position like you or me

or my boys because everybody wants to know and everybody wants to hunt there, too.

Yeah. Yeah. Um and it's just going to overcrowd the place for everybody if we if we tell people and people in your industry where you're

selling bows and arrows to these people, you want them to be successful. Yeah, I do. And and and

one of the and and you could probably really dial them into a really good spot.

But part of being successful is finding your own spots and and satisfaction level.

The satisfaction. So you walk up, you shoot you shoot your first buck and the the the did it all yourself. You fletched your own arrows. You did

everything. you earned it and to have it cut off short because

you went to your buddy's hunting spot to go do it and you know he probably ain't going to like you being there, you know.

I don't know how people could feel good about that. No. No. Or trespassing. Um those kind of things. It just kind of

takes the You don't want to look over your shoulder for anything. You want to just be just do it right. Full on. So

yeah, you more it's not just it's not just that there's

satisfaction in doing it yourself, but it robs you of part of the experience too. We were talking about this uh last

year, two years ago when we were elk hunting and we were in an area we we hunted the same area for my whole uh

like childhood, right? from when I could get a tag at 13 um up until I got back

from college. We hunted we were able to hunt that area most years. And we were just talking about it

because we were in an area and it was like they they always travel through here in the late morning and uh I was

saying when I was a kid that's all seemed random to me. I didn't put it together that the elk were in an area at

a certain time of the day for any particular reason. You know, it just felt like luck where my brother just he

put all that together right away. He just knew intuitively what they were doing and where they were going. But

when you find those good spots, it is the experience of being on the

ground, viewing the animal behavior, getting to know their patterns, what they do, and why that spot is a good

spot. Right? And if someone just gives you a pin, you missed all that. You have

no idea. You don't know the elk any better. You don't know the the country any better if you're just going to a

spot on a map that someone told you about. So, you're you're robbing yourself of too much if you're just uh

you know, if you're just hunting that way. Yeah. Yeah. Shortcuts.

Shortcuts doesn't always mean it's a good thing. And that's a shortcut. Somebody drops you the pen, they've

saved you hours and hours looking at maps. They've saved you hours, hours sitting in front of the computer

to draw and you're and you're on Google Earth. You're doing they're saving you hours now like, "Hey, turn off your

computer. Here's a pen." It they're robbing you of all that. And to

me, that's that that's the fun part. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I I had 10 hours of staring until

my eyeballs bleeded on my Onyx or my or Google Earth, and man, was I rewarded.

Yeah. you know, so put those hours on your feet. Yeah.

Well, I got to tell you, it's been such a pleasure and I so much appreciate you doing this and love to do it again

sometime because this man has an amazing amazing lifetime of hunting and there's

so much knowledge to gain and I and we do like sharing our knowledge and our tactics and

cutting a learning curve that way. That's for dang sure. Yeah. Maybe next time we'll talk about a little bit about deer, elk, analopee,

sheep hunting, that kind of stuff. I love that. Um, that's that's always fun, too. I mean,

the bear stories can be exciting and like, holy cow, that was a class call, but it's a it's it's it's unique to talk

about just our I call it like sitting around a campfire just talking about your stories, you know. Exactly.

And I'm all ears. I mean, it's we've always been with there's something to learn from everybody, but when you get a man like this to

learn from, it's it's pretty special. I appreciate that. I got to say this, too.

You know, when I tuck my kids into bed, my girls are still pretty young. And uh they always have questions and that sort

of thing. So, I was drawing bedtime. I like it. But a common question from my uh my oldest daughter is she says, "Do

you have any new Herald stories in my house?"

That is funny. Yeah. Yeah. Because we've got great it, you know, we've got to live vicariously

through Harold's adventures for a long time. Yeah. Unfortunately, a lot of them is because it sounds like I'm accident pro and this weird [ __ ] happens to me. I was

breaking something, twisting something. You've healed some Those are time for another another webcast. But

it's such a pleasure to uh be able to expose you to other people. And uh you

know, as the best hunter, not too many people know about. I mean, there should

be a book. There should be a book. I know that's not in your plans, but these adventures you've had and these

experiences are are uh unlike most everybody in the world. And uh

appreciate being your friend and and uh I value the friendship very much. Thank you, buddy. The whole shop.

Tommy, anything else before we uh wrap her up from you? There's so many things that I could ask or or talk about, but

um no, I think that's a pretty well there is one more thing I I do want to say. Um because we were talking about

how long we've known Harold and that sort of thing. I knew of Harold for much longer than I knew Harold because he was

just another guy in the area that would come in and get a string or get some points. Never said a word about

anything. you know, we we knew him as a customer, but didn't know anything about his his uh accomplishments.

And I think I think Dan asked you, you came in with a real beat up string one

time, and Dan said, "Did you do any good hunting this season?" And the answer was

like, "Uh, yeah, I killed a 350inch bull, 330inch bull, a doll sheep, and a

moose." And my brother was like, "Oh, really?" Yeah. you know, you got any pictures? And uh like I'll be right

back. And came in and and gave my brother that photo album and it was just like moose,

moose, 180 white tail, 200 inch mule deer, grizzly bear, giant bull, giant,

you know, and it was just page after page and my brother's he goes, "Who are you?" you know, but uh but the point was

like there are so many good hunters. You know, the area that we that we grew up

in like Arvvada, Colorado, it's unbelievable how many incredible hunters

came out of that area and you'll never see them on Instagram. You won't even know they're hunters. And

if you stepped in their house and looked around, you'd be shocked like, are you

kidding me? And uh I don't know. there's still a lot of guys out there like that that we would never know about. Um, but

it was humbling to me because I thought that I was, you know, a big hunter and then I started meeting all these guys

and it was uh it was I don't know. I don't know another word besides humbling. I was like, I'm going to keep my mouth shut from now on.

Yeah, there's there's always another level and you never quit learning. I mean, here I'm 63 years old and I' I've

trained a lot of guides, a lot of guides. And a lot of guys think they're wearing they they they got an S on their

chest like they're the superhero and they can really some clients that works with some

clients it doesn't. It's like hey here you're guiding a guy that's he's he he needs a dull sheep for his grand slam.

He's killed the other three. He's one sheep away from the super slam

and you're not going to show him nothing. He has to have you as a guy Jonah as an

outfitter to make it legal. Believe me, if it wasn't a state law that you got to

have a guide to hunt sheep in Alaska, he would not be using you. He knows how to do this.

Yeah. So, you need to take this guy that you're rubbing shoulders with, you're glassing the same mountain, you need to

pick his brain. You need because every year, whether it's a person with a lot of experience or or not hardly any at

all, he's got a gadget. I'm like, where the heck did you get that? And it's something that's going to make my life

so much more easier that I didn't even know was out there. or a way that he picks a mountain apart optic wise. Um or

just the vegetation. He's like, you know, this here, if you ever got if you ever got a bug bite, you can go ahead

and take this, hit it with a rock, and smash it up. And he goes, "This is really good for bug bites." Um something

that simple. But every year I learned something or hunting tactic from my clients. Yeah. And and I I typically get all the

bow hunters and and the stuff I've learned I soak it up like a sponge where the guy I'm like, "Well, Harold, how

would what do you think? What how would you approach this?" Well, in about an hour from now, the thermals are going to

change. So, I think I I don't think you got an hour to get down there. And um he

goes, "Yeah, but if the thermals are going to change, wouldn't it be a good idea to skirt this?" And I'm like, "I

never would have thought about that." I mean, you never quit. You don't shut yourself off because you're

the man partner. Yeah. Yeah. It is. You soak it up like a sponge. It doesn't matter the quality or

the caliber or the experience of the person you're with. That that one little p no different with wrestling. You can

take this guy out there that's 0 and 30 and he ends up be pinning your freaking most awesome guy, you know? Uh because

he had that one move. Yeah. You know, he just never got kn to use it because everybody kept pinning him before he got to use it. But finally,

but it's it's no different with I never shut it off to anybody. And I always with all my clients, I'm like after we

dissect a hill, like, okay, there's no sheep over there. And I go, well,

um, it's it's trade places. And we trade places and we're glassing. Then all of a

sudden, they found a sheep where I should have picked one up. Now, whether maybe he was beded down, I couldn't see him. And they're like, "Holy [ __ ]

there's one right here in front of God and everybody. He's right there." I'm like, "Well, he wasn't there before." But any rate, but u it's just it's this

it's also humbling to just pat people on the back. Let them know and I tell Jonah

he's the one that classed it. He's the one that found it. I didn't. I looked at that mountain for an hour and I didn't see it and he found it.

Um so it's it's it's you know how good it makes people feel, how you feel when people give you compliments.

So never shut it off. It it makes the other people feel just as good to get compliments from you. Especially with

somebody that's got experience, some especially somebody that has an archery shop, especially somebody that's gone through a ton of bows and knows

everything out there. It's just give compliments. Compliments will bring people back all the time and and you'll

have friends everywhere you go. Yeah. So encouragement. So awesome. All right, guys. Well, I really appreciate this. This was awesome. And

we'll do it again. Yes, we will.

Next article Easton 5.0 vs Victory HLR - Head-To-Head Spine Tolerance & Durability Test